On-line Interview with Marianne Williamson

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Online Noetic Network Interview with Marianne Williamson

ONN Joel: In a spiritually conscious society, what would our prisons look like?

Marianne Williamson: In the most enlightened society, there would be no prisons because there would be no crime. Obviously, we have a long way to go before that is true. But one of the ways we can commit to the path towards that reality is to shift our consciousness around prisons in particular and in criminal justice in general. Particularly, what is at issue is our worldview: either you believe in the ultimate reality of guilt or you believe in the ultimate reality of God's grace. Faith in God's grace means faith in people's capacity to change, and thus to be rehabilitated. We can't believe in a redeemed America if we don't believe in redemption. Prison can have an atonement value for some people, and certain criminals clearly belong there. Prison obviously still has a real function.

But the consciousness around prisons in America today is laden with a consciousness of guilt and punishment, with far too little emphasis on the genuine rehabilitation of people's lives. Thus, our prisons are universities of crime, where even small-time criminals go and learn how to be big-time criminals.

Most violent crime in America is committed by people who have already served time in jail. In Texas, when Ann Richards was governor, she introduced drug and alcohol rehabilitation programs into the Texas prison system. The rate of recidivism during her tenure dropped, in some cases, dramatically.

When the present governor, George Bush, Jr., began his term, one of the first things he did was to withdraw those programs from the prison system -- even though they had worked! He said that, "In Texas, we believe that criminals should be punished." Another example of this: I have a 7 year old daughter. When I'm told not to worry because some rapist has been put away in jail, that hardly makes me feel good. It means he'll be released from prison when my daughter is a gorgeous teenager. I would feel better if I was told that while in jail the rapist was going through some seriously transformative program, by which his life was revitalized and his sanity returned. What we do to others, we ultimately are doing to ourselves. Spiritual law is inescapable and inviolate. As you punish others, you shall be punished.

ONN Joel: In a spiritually conscious society, what would newspaper editorials look like?

Marianne Williamson: To be honest, I read some pretty fine newspaper editorials now. I don't see them changing so much. Editors express their opinions now and hopefully they will express their opinions then. Sometimes, I agree with them, and sometimes, I don't. Enlightenment means freedom above all things; it's not a state in which we all necessarily agree on everything.

ONN Joel: How about broadcast and the media?

Marianne Williamson: That's a different story. With freedom comes ethical responsibility, way too often ignored these days. The press in America today is drunk on its power, with far too much emphasis on sensational headlines before commitment to truth. The firewall between editorial and marketing departments is shamefully, even scandalously, coming down -- in newspaper after newspaper, magazine after magazine. It's one more area where a market-obsessed mentality threatens to destroy everything most precious about American democracy. When we can no longer reasonably look to the press for as fair as possible a representation of events, we lose a critical factor in our capacity to make informed and meaningful decisions. Without ethics, journalism is tyrannical.

ONN Joel: In a spiritually conscious society, what would political debates look like?

Marianne Williamson: They would look like they do now, but far more often then is now true, we would be deeply impressed by the intellectual, philosophical and spiritual tenure of both candidate and conversation.

ONN Joel: Your book talks about Ghandi giving counsel, recalling the face of a myth and giving guidance. What is the talisman you would give?

Marianne Williamson: I am very concerned about the children in this country. There is a minimum level of security and opportunity that every American child should reasonably expect. This is not a charity issue; it is a justice issue. I try, to the best of my ability, to live my life and carry out my professional endeavors in such a way as to hopefully contribute to a meaningful repudiation of the trend in America to put the presumed needs of our economy before the obvious needs of America's children.

ONN Joel: Your daughter is 7 years old. I imagine she has heard some of the concepts you talk about. What would she say about your book?

Marianne Williamson: Children don't give direct feedback to their parents so much as you learn indirectly what they're thinking. I saw a letter, as part of her second grade class project, in which the class all wrote letters to President Clinton. In my daughter's letter she said, "America needs more good people willing to help out. This will take awhile, but it will happen." Reading that letter, I understood that she has picked up more from me than I even knew. I thought it was hilarious that while other children were asking the President questions, my child was telling him how things are going to go down.

ONN Joel: Like mother, like daughter! Over the years, the focus of your message has progressed from individual concerns and truth to social consciousness and politics. Can you describe the evolution of your vision?

Marianne Williamson: I don't feel like my current work represents a departure, but simply an extension from focus on metaphysical principles as they apply to the inner life to how they apply to outer events. Even in my first book, A Return to Love, I speak about political issues in a few places, as I also do in Illuminata and A Woman's Worth.

It's not as though I woke up one day in the last 3 or 4 years and said, "Oh, politics seems interesting." I still recognize that change must begin within. But it shouldn't stop there. As Ghandi said, "People who don't think religion has anything to do with politics, don't understand the meaning of religion."

ONN Joel: As your vision and focus has narrowed, does this reflect the depth you're tapping into yourself? Are you saying it's not a change but rather a refining?

Marianne Williamson: I'm 45 years old. Hopefully, I'm maturing and hopefully I'm growing as a writer and a thinker.

ONN Joel: Does this refining reflect a deepening in the thinking of society and the consciousness movement?

Marianne Williamson: I think so. Baby boomers are no longer children. We are middle-aged people with thoughts of our own mortality dancing around in our heads. As a group, we haven't really gone for it. We have not made the world a better place.

In fact, we've become the biggest fodder for the downside of American capitalism as has ever existed. In time, we have one more shot at our opportunity to transform American society and I think there are millions of us who would love to participate in one last grand effort to do it.

In addition to that, there is a large group of younger people as well who recognize the various ways the American ideal has been totally corrupted by our economic obsessiveness in this society and would also like to join a meaningful effort to repudiate that madness. The consciousness necessary for real change exists; what we must do is harness that consciousness; it must go from abstraction and loosely-defined ideas to some kind of serious social and political movement. That movement looms on the horizon now. Many people are beginning to bring it forth.

ONN Joel: How has the book been received?

Marianne Williamson: I've heard very gratifying comments about my book. On the other hand, people who don't like a book rarely say so to an author's face. This much I know: many people whom I deeply respect have shown respect for this piece of writing, and I am deeply honored by that.

ONN Joel: What are your next steps?

Marianne Williamson: I have started an organization called The American Renaissance Alliance. People who are interested in the ideas I'm talking about here and the ideas in The Healing of America can call 805-565-8757 for further information, or can contact us through our Web page at
http://renaissancealliance.org.

You can also reach The American Renaissance Alliance through my own Web page at http://www.marianne.com.